CRAWFORD: Was the wind moving with the surface water? [laughs] I know if I’ve tagged it, I had to pay $2 to tag it and then I caught the damn thing again, and have to find out about it. Copyright © 2017 Warren Lewis and Steve Crawford, [Discussion about project classification levels for human encounters with White Pointers: Level 1-Observation, Level 2-Swim-By, Level 3-Interest, Level 4-Intense]. That these fish did not take long to turn up. CRAWFORD: So, they likely also had the blood and offal? But because you had access via the river mouth, it was only a 60-minute run. They’d come in and they’d lay off in Port Chalmers and clean their fish out there. CRAWFORD: What do you know about the Shark tagging work from Clinton Duffy [NZ Department of Conservation] and Malcom Francis [NZ National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research], specifically with the White Pointers? Otago Peninsula was a very rich fishery. Wasn’t terribly high - like a Dolphin. Or was it becoming commercial? LEWIS: Yes, I’ve heard, you know the old ‘Jaws’ syndrome of the big fin going around the boat. LEWIS: It was. LEWIS: No, we were just down there, "Here goes all this rubbish going out," "Oh hell, here goes a big fish," you know? A lot of areas were not accessible to them, but many were. CRAWFORD: 'Terrible fish' in terms of what? And the drum just didn’t go plop. They are creatures of habit. Kaikoura was very much like us, especially in the deep water, tidal flows. The Mako Sharks and stuff like that. One line 50-60 metres back, another one 10 metres back, and the back of the boat. They must have been there. I don’t believe the top harbour is conducive to having Great White Sharks swimming around it. I’ve been out and caught 15 before breakfast, and 10 before lunch time. The fish had gone in and just ripped and thrashed and torn itself out. Incidental bycatch, you know? Warren Paul LEWIS is from NEW ZEALAND and is, or was, a director or shareholder of a New Zealand company. LEWIS: Most of the Shark fishing with my own vessel was around the Otago Peninsula, but we also we were trailer-borne. [laughs]. The majority of Sharks I’ve seen have been in the lower harbour, which is Port Chalmers to Taiaroa Head. Was it perhaps for curiosity? LEWIS: Yes, very much seasonally. CRAWFORD: It's important to know where the effort was and was not. There’s the historical context, in terms of how far back these stories go. Life was motoring on, and I started to get involved in the sports fishery. LEWIS: The offal chute which was there - probably 75-100 metres to the harbour. LEWIS: Shark fishing. LEWIS: Off Godley Head, because there’s a Canterbury Sports fishing club there. What was previously 50/50, would have become maybe 30/70 for that 20-year period? Another competitor, Warren Lewis, originally from Timaru but now of Auckland, owns and was aboard an American-made 35ft (10.7m) Douglas Skater powerboat, with twin 525hp V8s, which due to commission regulations required a helicopter with a diver on board to follow it around the course. Is there a difference in terms of the recreational Shark fishing community, in terms of species-specific tactics and the strategies? But again, it was only for the fact that I was so interested in the species, and I sought information on it. But we still had the berley going out. It costs me more money. CRAWFORD: Was your ancestry, your people, your family - did they derive from the Whalers? CRAWFORD: Nearshore, but outside of the harbour. They started fishing in the Otago Harbour, and fished it right up to the 1940s. LEWIS: Travelling north. If you did see a very good big specimen off the back, you tend to put the heavier gear on, and hope you’re going to hang onto it - you know the fish were pretty far. LEWIS: Probably more in the setnets, because they were down over night and goodness knows the actual time that the net had been in the water. Given the sensory system of the Shark. I have numerous photographs and stories of my father, pictures of these big Sharks hauled up on the beach. I was just saying to my mate, "Oh, that was big." Observations of juveniles? One extremely large animal, and two smaller but still large animals, probably 14 and 16 feet. LEWIS: Probably from the very early days. Warren Lewis/Chris Hanley Fairview Skater 35 ft 2 x 525 EFI V8. I mean you’d have to be there prior to the dump yourself, and see that they were there. Warren Lewis has lived and owned businesses in Picton for more than 30 years. Does it continue on to this day, or was there another significant change in your 20’s or your 30’s, in terms of vessel or activity or gear or anything? As you get closer to your boat, the berley gets shallower, and your line. LEWIS: Yes. Most of the top harbour, if you look at it, is very tidal, very shallow at times. Whether it was just the noise of the oars on the water, and the fish coming in on that? We didn’t get too far. LEWIS: Oh, 6 metres. CRAWFORD: Would it be the kind of thing that at the age of 11 or 12 you might go out on the big boats once per month - that kind of thing? Which allowed me to go on more land-based type operations, and then the fishing. Twenty years ago? LEWIS: 1963/64. But this idea that there is migratory behaviour, that doesn’t mean that individual animals necessarily have to do the full loop every year. LEWIS: Yes. What do you know of the decision to deploy those nets in the first place? Of course, we never caught any Marlin over there. CRAWFORD: It could have, but it was floating the last time you saw it. They used to team up, and used to use God forbid, the odd marine mammal for bait. LEWIS: Just large fish, finning in the water, swimming through. CRAWFORD: At what age did you have access to an outboard motor? But these in Wickliffe Bay were just free swimming, and not deviating. CRAWFORD: So, there was a reduction in the amount of time on the water? LEWIS: Yes. LEWIS: No, trolling. I have cousins who are older than my father. Minimal cost and maximum return. It was "My grandfather done it, my father done it, my brothers done it." Warren has over 45 years experience in the professional engineering industry. You’d really have to have some kind of striking observation to say that these animals were there prior. They weren’t surface to bottom nets. My father would say “Hold on to your nose,” and he’d pour this rubbish down you, and it would give all cures. CRAWFORD: Same process as before - in your 5+ decades of experience, approximately how many White Pointers would you have seen in those offshore waters? Boat Crew: Warren Lewis / Chris Hanley. CRAWFORD: When you start focusing on sport fishing, did it shift back to 50:50 aquatic-terrestrial split of time? There’d be these big old hand carts for taking it. But there were also national titles, international titles? There are 200+ professionals named "Warren Lewis", who use LinkedIn to exchange information, ideas, and opportunities. And we decided "Well, let's get into this." I can remember Allan Anderson telling me they got a very large one. Some Mako Sharks we tagged in the far north have gone way further north, somewhere around Fiji I think, and then round those pacific islands. Early December, through to ... they were tapering off in April. CRAWFORD: Was there anything else between then and now? And behind the boat was this big Shark, you could define the Shark. LEWIS: We didn’t really go looking, though. If it was a nice night, we would go. Auckland Harbour Bridge to Great Barrier Island & Return Speed Record The Speed Record for racing from Auckland Harbour Bridge to Tryphena - Great Barrier Island and Return, administered by the NZOPA and recognised by the NZPBF. And my grandparents lived in this bay over here - that’s called Deborah Bay. A very large, established fish factory. LEWIS: Jackson Bay. LEWIS: No. This was my father’s generation I’m talking about. CRAWFORD: Did you ever go to the outside of the peninsula? Opportunity to go out there and fish. The trawlers would come in and clean at these stations? CRAWFORD: Level 1 observation only, or perhaps a Level 2 swim-by? CRAWFORD: Can you explain your thinking on that? LEWIS: About 50-50 would be a fair estimate. It was such a huge, massive fish. CRAWFORD: My reason for asking is that obviously, when you are big-game fishing, if you are berleying to attract the fish, then you’re changing the odds of encounter with a White Pointer. The offal chute used to go straight out over, probably two metres long. They had just decimated the Seals. The Mako Shark, the Great White and the Porbeagle are three big pelagic Sharks, those are the big three. It’d be no more than 2-3 inches. LEWIS: In the dinghy, tied up to a beacon. Warren has over 45 years experience in the professional engineering industry. You could play within eyesight - that type of thing? Let's get back to the Shark nets that Dunedin City Council deployed at St. Clair and St. Kilda in the aftermath of the attacks. All the kids in Port Chalmers, we’d be sitting on the wharfs catching fish. LEWIS: No, it wasn’t for a lack of trying. Were they in for a feed of something? Then the fish progressed up to the Moeraki headland, north of Karitane, and then the Waitaki River run up there. CRAWFORD: Right. LEWIS: Oh, yes. Although I’ve had my grandfather’s relation, the one with the Shark approached and broke the oars of the boat. For a long time, we were not associated with any club. CRAWFORD: Right. If you get a huge number of Barracouta coming by, Red Cod, Warehou. You already said this was a very productive fish ground as well. “So and so had a big Shark on,” but often people are saying "I’ve caught a massive Shark." CRAWFORD: When your father was fishing, what was the split between harbour fishing and beach fishing? Obviously, they had to be White Sharks - that type of Shark. Increasing freight costs were making it uneconomic to service FMI’s South Island customers, says Lewis. It may not have been nylon in those days. LEWIS: Yes, major repairs. He maintained that they were habit forming, with the activities of the shore bays - the Whaling station there. 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